What They Said

From MondoweissThe situation, in a nutshell

Anna Baltzer, Author, And Haithem El-Zabri, Founder Of The Palestine Online Store. Austin, Tx, November 2008

13 Responses to “What They Said”

  1. libhomo Says:

    That is pretty telling.

  2. RickB Says:

    Yeah it’s great, simple and direct.

  3. Emmanuel Says:

    I wonder where El-Zabri was born. Gaza, the West Bank or East Jerusalem, I assume, since he doesn’t look like he’s over sixty. Otherwise, he isn’t from Palestine – his parents or grandparents are. There’s a big difference.

  4. RickB Says:

    Do you? One can live there and one can’t based on discrimination. Furthermore if he did live there he would be subject to a set of laws far more repressive than any Jewish person in the same location. If the Nakba forced his family out that does not damage his moral claim to return, it reinforces it in fact. If legitimacy resides in time passed since expulsion then it’s not the Palestinians who are on a losing proposition (Shlomo Sand aside!). It’s about discrimination and human rights, one state secular democracy.

  5. Emmanuel Says:

    One state will never work. Israelis would never agree to it. And why would we? Who would willingly become a minority, especially when the new majority would be those we fought with as enemies for decades? The two-state solution is the only way to go – and Palestinians can return to the Palestinian state.

    The right of return is not a natural right, but a political right. It’s Israel’s right to decide who to grant that political right to, as part of its immigration policy. Just like other countries set immigration policies, often preferring certain groups over others.

    By the way, what makes you so certain an “Isratine” would be a secular democracy?

    • ralfast Says:

      Wait a second! Israel is based on the right of Jews to return to it yet it sees fit to deny the same right to others?

      Oh wait, this is about political power. You don’t want to become a literal apartheid state where a ruling minority controls the lives of the majority through segregation, discrimination and land theft.

      I get it.

  6. libhomo Says:

    “The right of return is not a natural right, but a political right. It’s Israel’s right to decide who to grant that political right to, as part of its immigration policy. Just like other countries set immigration policies, often preferring certain groups over others.”

    It takes a lot of nerve to say that countries have the right to ban indigenous people who were driven out from ever coming back to their homeland. It’s even more obnoxious when it comes from foreigners and their ancestors, which includes the vast majority of Jewish people in Israel.

    Having some ancestors of two indigenous nations in the US, I have to say that your attitude is disgusting and reprehensible. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  7. RickB Says:

    Emmanuel- Because it’s right. Conflict will continue as long as just solutions are denied. Imposing an unjust settlement will have zero legitimacy (apart from land what of water rights, gas rights) allied governments might go along but in the civic sphere Israel will remain a pariah state and that long term is good for no one. Bantustans are not a state.

    Immigration policy decided by might & ethnic cleansing is wrong. In the UK, in the US, in Israel.

    Because that would be the only agreeable state, non religious but allowing all to co-exist equally. Ethno religious nation states are not democracies (Jewish democracy, like Christian democracy or Islamic democracy is an oxymoron) nor are they anything to aim for especially in a territory contested by numerous religions and traditions.

  8. Emmanuel Says:

    I seriously don’t see what’s unjust about a two-state solution, two nation-states living side by side independently. If the Palestinian State gets all of Gaza and the West Bank it wouldn’t be made up of bantustans. It’s in Israel’s best interest to make it a viable, thriving state.

    There have been many cases where refugees situations were created, and the indigenous people didn’t claim a right to return – the Turkey/Greece and India/Pakistan situations, for example. I think Palestinian refugees and their descendents should be compensated and/or allowed to move to the Palestinian State, but not to Israel. It isn’t the same country they left 60 years ago.

    libhomo: Calling me a foreigner in the country I’ve lived in all my life doesn’t really open up a dialogue.

  9. Essential Dissent Says:

    Here’s video of Anna Baltzer’s recent presentation at Cornell University, entitled “Life in Occupied Palestine – Eyewitness Stories & Photos”:

    http://essentialdissent.blogspot.com/search/label/Anna%20Baltzer

  10. RickB Says:

    Then why does Israel derail two states with further colonies and a siege? Racist colonial zionism is out of control, living in denial just facilitates it.

  11. jim Says:

    That word `racism` again. Don’t they just love it!


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